From Debt to Financial Freedom: Steven Andrews' Real Estate Success Journey

Ever wondered how a real estate mogul overcomes initial fears and student loan debt to own 300 units? Steven Andrews, a successful investor from North Carolina, joins us to share his journey from a hesitant newcomer to a seasoned professional in the world of real estate. Starting from an inspiring class at High Point University, Steven reveals the crucial role of mentorship and the lessons learned from transitioning from simulated projects to real-life investments. With his best-selling book as a testament to his knowledge, Steven’s story is filled with actionable insights and inspiring moments that can help you kickstart your own real estate journey.

In today's episode, we uncover practical strategies for real estate success, even when starting from a place of significant debt. Steven shares unconventional methods like leveraging credit card advances for property purchases and repairs, highlighting the power of a mindset shift in viewing borrowing and financial institutions. He emphasizes the significance of the first deal in building trust with lenders, offering personal anecdotes that underscore how buying the worst house on the block can lead to maximum investment potential. This segment is a goldmine of tips for anyone looking to transform their financial situation through real estate.

Asset protection and strategic property management are also on the agenda, with Steven explaining the benefits of setting up multiple LLCs and comprehensive insurance policies to shield assets. We discuss the advantages of clustering investment properties to simplify management and reduce costs, as well as the importance of networking within the industry for long-term success. As we wrap up, we stress the timeless wisdom of starting your real estate investment journey now to benefit from future appreciation. If you're looking for a blend of practical advice and motivational stories, this episode is a must-listen.

Win up to $500,000 for buying his book 'The New American Dream"!
Giveaway site:
https://shop.soarxconsulting.com/?_gl=1*zvq165*_ga*MTI1MjIxOTkyNC4xNzE3MTY1Njcz*_ga_8D464H0PDJ*MTcxNzQzMTYwMi4zLjAuMTcxNzQzMTYwMi4wLjAuMA..*_gcl_au*MjQ2MDY4OTYxLjE3MTcxNjU2NzM.

Website:
https://www.soarxconsulting.com/

Chapter Timestamps

(00:03) - Understanding Real Estate

(05:41) - Real Estate Investing Success Strategy

(17:37) - Asset Protection Strategies in Real Estate

(30:19) - Property Clustering and Real Estate Networking

(39:09) - Making Offers in Real Estate

(49:59) - Book Discussion and Giveaway Promotion

(54:38) - Real Estate

Highlight Timestamps

(02:59 - 04:02) Real Estate Success and Mentorship (63 Seconds)

(09:08 - 10:11) Navigating First Real Estate Investment Financing (63 Seconds)

(12:23 - 13:18) Property Investment for Long-Term Growth (55 Seconds)

(16:30 - 17:29) Building Wealth Through Real Estate Investment (59 Seconds)

(21:00 - 21:57) Benefits of Using LLCs in Business (57 Seconds)

(28:30 - 29:48) Real Estate Networking and Opportunities (78 Seconds)

(34:19 - 35:34) Real Estate Investing Trends (75 Seconds)

(38:21 - 39:37) Making Offers in Real Estate (76 Seconds)

(44:19 - 44:53) Book's Valuable Insights for Investors (34 Seconds)

(47:55 - 48:48) Social Media Influence and Authenticity (53 Seconds)


Real Estate, Investing, Success Strategy, Asset Protection, Property Management, Networking, Borrowing, Financial Institutions, Undervalued Properties,

Transcript

00:03 - Dan (Co-host)
why is it called real estate? How is it defined? 

00:07 - Marcus (Host)
real estate. How is it defined? Um, I would be. I would say it has something to do with it being a tangible asset, which would make it the real part about it, and then the estate would just be like a plot of land or an asset. 

00:26 - Dan (Co-host)
So you're close. So the word real derived from the Latin meaning existing, actual or genuine. So that was spot on. The word estate English translation of an old French word estate meaning status. 

00:41 - Marcus (Host)
Okay. 

00:42 - Dan (Co-host)
So now the estate word we use to describe owned property consisting of houses or land interesting yeah, right so welcome to mvp real estate podcast season four, episode six. 

00:56 - Marcus (Host)
We have steven andrews here. Uh, multiple decades in real estate, uh, out of North Carolina, has built quite a portfolio of homes just within his surrounding areas. So talking about competition on the podcast, talking about his new book that he put out, that he shares throughout the podcast, but towards the end he kind of gives like his big, his big takeaway of the book. And then at the end so stay tuned he does tell you how you can enter in. There's multiple giveaways for $1,000 and there's one grand one for $500,000. So we'll put all the links in the show notes so you can buy the book, you can buy some merchandise, you can get entered in to win some of those giveaways. But let's bring them on. Well, thank you, stephen, for being here. Thanks for giving us the time. I'm going to let you go ahead and do like a quick literal I always call it an elevator speech 30 seconds to a minute of your background, just so our audience get a feel of like who you are and where you came from. 

02:01 - Steven (Guest)
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me, dan and Marcus Glad to be here. So yeah, stephen Andrews has been in this great business called real estate for a decade, but my journey started certainly more than a decade ago. I took a real estate class my senior year at High Point University and just fell in love with real estate and my adjunct professor there. We had a simulation and he owned apartments in Chicago at the time and he was wanting to expand his business down into North Carolina and so the whole project was hey, buy an apartment complex, make it profitable in the first year. That was the simulation. If you did that, you got a good grade. 

02:38
If you didn't, then you didn't get a good grade and I just fell in love with the different aspects of what real estate really is and so fast forward a couple of years because I was too scared to get into real estate. Right, you know, I thought you had to have money and I thought you had to be well connected. And you know your brain plays tricks on you because you know, starting something new, you got to get out of your comfort zone and so I was just too afraid. And I was talking to my parents about wanting to get into real estate and my dad knew a guy named Joel here in North Carolina and he had been in this business 30 years. And so he said I don't know if he can help you or not, but here's his number, give him a call. And it was just a match made in heaven. 

03:14
We're still friends to this day. Still my mentor. I bought a ton of property from him because he was wanting to downsize and spend more time with his family. I was wanting to certainly grow and fast forward a decade about 300 units in flip houses, loan money now wrote best-selling book the New American Dream, and I've launched a consulting business to help people get into this thing called real estate as well. So it's just been a full 360 and it's been great. 

03:43 - Marcus (Host)
That's awesome. And that project that you had at High Point with the simulation, that is super cool. I remember in college because one of my majors was sport management and we had to basically host the Olympics. We had to pick a city, pick where the resources were travel, amenities, all that stuff Super cool. It's fun in a simulation but, like you said, when it's real life it's a little difficult. So my first question was in that simulation, what are the biggest differences you found from real life investing as opposed to that simulated class investing? 

04:21 - Steven (Guest)
Yeah, you know, for me a lot of the principles are the same, right, but assimilation's fake. You know it's not really your money or it's not money that you're borrowing, and in real life you know it's. You are borrowing the money or you're using your own money. So it becomes a lot more real. And so you know assimilation, you're fine with making maybe a few more risks or a few more mistakes, because hey, you know nobody's going to lose any money. But certainly you get into the real life and you know you start thinking about OK, what about these mistakes? What about? You know losing money becomes a lot more real. And so you're a little bit more cautious or a little bit more conservative in real life compared to what a simulation would have been. 

05:03 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and I know the fact of raising money was your first one when you got into the real life, compared to what a simulation would have been. Yeah, and I know the fact of of raising money was your first one when you got into the real life side of things. Do you remember the simulation and how you raised money in that simulation? 

05:16 - Steven (Guest)
Yeah. So you know, for the simulation it was more based on for the money aspect. They already kind of gave you a budget, you know. So it was more about, you know, finding the property and making it profitable. And you, you physically had to find a property in Chicago. I mean, that was a part of the simulation. You had to find one that was for sale and plug in the numbers. 

05:41
But I got a pretty cool story on how I got started in real life. So I was $75,000 in student loan debt Well, majority of it was student loan and I made a great investment as a 22 year old and bought a brand new car too. Um, just wonderful investment. I highly recommend anybody 22 to do not go buy a new car. Um, and I only made $45,000 a year, you know. So I didn't have a lot of money left over at the end of the day. 

06:05
And so when I was talking to Joel, I said, joel, how do I get in this? Like I feel like you got to have money, I feel like you got to be well connected. He was like you don't need either one of them, right? He said, figure out a way to get your down payment. And at that time the banks were allowing just 15% down, and so he said just whatever it takes, get your hands on the money. And I thought about it at the time. I had a credit card that allowed you to take a cash advance off that credit card, and it was only 7% interest, so much different than what it is today. 

06:34
But I pulled money off a credit card and that was my down payment and so. 

06:38
I tell people to this day I don't have a dime of my own money tied up in it, because I borrowed my down payment to buy the property. I borrowed the money against a credit card to do the repairs and then when I refinanced it, I pulled that money back out, paid that stuff off and I rolled money to the next property. And so from the very beginning I used borrowed money and it's easier now than ever to find places to borrow that money at now. Your rental markets might be a little bit tougher to get into, right, Depending on the prices and interest rates and that sort of thing. But if you want to get in this business, you can certainly get into it with little to no money, yeah, and once you get comfortable, mindset wise, of borrowing other people's money, the gates open. 

07:22 - Marcus (Host)
And it seems foreign when you're not in real estate that people want to like give out money. But people want to put money out. The people that have the money need to place it. They're playing the tax game at that point and they want to be able to lend it out. So, yeah, you just have to get over that mental hurdle of like, oh, I'm borrowing money, that fear factor of like, oh, I'm borrowing, it's debt, but it's not a card debt, it's something that's going to make you money debt. So difference between that debt. 

07:50 - Steven (Guest)
Absolutely. And I think about what Joel told me about bankers or institutions that lend money. He said when you go in and you talk to these people, he said you know everybody's, you know, has a little bit of a fear about a banker for whatever reason. I don't know if it's because they're in a suit and they're all buttoned up and whatever it is. But he said it's really a two way interview. He said you're interviewing them as much as they're interviewing you. They're interviewing you based on like are you going to be a good customer for the bank? But you're also interviewing them because do you want to work with this person? And he said you know, when you have a mindset that the banker job or the financial institutions job is to lend money, if they do not lend money they get fired, right. But if they also lend money and you don't pay them, they also get fired. 

08:39
So, like you know, it's a catch 22 there that you have to be a good. You both have to be good customers to each other. But if you get over that hurdle it's a game changer to your point. I mean it really is, and that's certainly what's catapulted me to the success I've had today, and certainly a complete mindset change. Right, you know life's all about perspective. You know, 10 years ago I had a different perspective of what bankers were and how you get money and that sort of thing, and certainly I have a much different perspective today. 

09:08 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and that first deal is, at least from my perspective, the hardest one, because you're trying to get that lender to trust that you are going to do good and you have no track record to do it. So that first connection, that first lending, is important. So if you can get into that mindset of like I'm interviewing you just like you're interviewing me, you're comfortable with that fact, if you can get it to go, then the floodgates will open Because, like you said, you can refinance. And I was going to ask you if we could dive into that first deal, because that's always like the tricky one for people getting in, so awesome. I don't know if you remember like you don't even know dollar amounts off the top of your head, but just ballparky. So we already talked about down. 

09:49
Payment came from a credit card. I don't know what interest rate the credit card was at that point, but obviously there's an interest rate, just like any other loan you'd have. And then the mortgage part was taken over by the financial institution, the bank. So do you know what you took out with your credit card and what the mortgage rate was? 

10:12 - Steven (Guest)
Yeah, so kind of my whole strategy has always been you know for one how to identify property buy the worst house on the block, right? So you know for me, you know, if you buy the best house on the block, there is no upside. You're paying retail value for it, you're not bettering your community, I mean, it's already the best on the block, and so you get a much better deal if you buy the worst house on the block, and that's what I did. You know I bought two houses side by side and there were about $35,000 a piece had to put down 15%, you 15 percent of that. So you're talking about seven thousand a property having to put down something like that. And so what I was able to do is take that money off the credit card and bought the worst houses on the block. 

10:56
I got them in my possession, I was able to go in and fit some up, and these properties just had cosmetic issues. So some of them had holes in the wall, maybe a broken window, some side messed up, uh, some landscaping that needed to be done. But what people don't realize is, if you can look past those things, you can get a heck of a deal, even to this day, because there are a lot of people that just says all you know. Most people say all that house just needs to be demoed, but it doesn't need to be damaged, it just needs a little buff right know it doesn't take that much to actually do some of this cosmetic stuff. 

11:27
Now, if it's structural stuff, stay away from it, especially if it's your first deal. But you know, for me that's what I did. And so then I pulled another 5,000, 6,000 off to go into both properties and I fixed them up, and then I was able to refinance them. And so now the value had doubled. Because there again you have to keep in mind an appraiser is also a human being, so they can't look past all the small things that are wrong. So now, when they come back and they appraise it, well, now all those small things aren't there anymore, they've been fixed. So it's you know, the value is higher. And then I was able to refinance it. I didn't even pull out 85% of it, pulled out less, so I'd have great equity in the property. But I pulled out enough to pay the credit card off, pay the down payment, pay the repairs off, and had a little bit of money left over to roll to the next one, where then I don't have to borrow as much off that credit card for the next go around, because I already have a little bit of money working. And so, not only you know, the rents were a lot cheaper when I bought it. I was able to raise rents and so it just made so much sense. 

12:34
And those same properties today you know I bought them for mid thirties those same properties today are worth close to 200,000 in 10 years. The rents have tripled in 10 years. And so you know, I tell people and I didn't know this then either you don't buy a property for today, you buy a property 10, 15 years from now. And it's hard for people to understand that properties actually go up in value, you know. So you know, yeah, you're buying a property, can it cashflow today? But you want to make sure it's going to go up in value. So if you buy the best house on the block, it might not go up in value. I mean, it might already be peaked out, it might take it a lot longer to go up compared to the worst house on the block, and so just so fascinating. 

13:16 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, exactly. And did you start with single family homes as your first investment, or did you jump right into multifamily? 

13:25 - Steven (Guest)
So it started with single family and then I got into multifamily Some duplexes, triplexes, quadplexes, fiveplexes, small little apartments, six, seven, eight units, max is 10. And that's kind of where I've stayed, kind of 10 units or less over my entire career and I've stayed in residential because for me it's everybody always has to have a place to live, right, you know. So I wanted to venture into commercial, but then when COVID hit and all these commercial people weren't getting paid anymore, you know, it really starts to get you to think, ok, well, maybe. 

13:58
I'm doing just fine in this residential landscape and not getting commercial. 

14:04 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, I had a benefit of working for a guy who did some commercial properties early on and I knew pretty quick that that was not the feel of what I was going for, with the rents being high and all that. It just it didn't feel recession proof to me. And then obviously, covid hit years later and the storefronts are just evaporating. So glad I didn't go that route. 

14:31 - Steven (Guest)
So, yeah, we've been sticking with uh, residential, just like you yeah, you know, and I tell people, you know it's, I feel like residential is recession proof right now, don't get me wrong. During COVID, you know that when the government put on there, you couldn't file a bitching for non-payment of rent, you know. You know when the government put on there, you couldn't file a bitching for nonpayment of rent. You know that's the first time that's ever happened in the history of this country, right? But outside of that there was programs to help people. 

14:53
We were very blessed and fortunate that, you know, vast majority of our tenants paid, but the ones that didn't, we were able to get them help and so we didn't feel that effect nearly as much. Now it took a ton more work because you had to kind of hold their hand a little bit, you know, because they're the ones that actually had to file for the assistance. We couldn't do it for them and so it was a little bit more difficult. But you're right, I mean, everybody's got to have a place to live, you know. And so you know, if you stay competitive and provide a good product and have a decent rent, you know you're all the time going to be able to fill those up. 

15:25 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and is this the kind of investment strategy you talk about in your book that I see in the background? Do you talk about your, your progression in investing? Is that like a, I guess, a step-by-step plan, or is it more of a mindset book for people that are trying to get into real estate? 

15:50 - Steven (Guest)
So it's a little bit of both. So, like the books, kind of set up first things first how to create an LLC, how you do those things, to how you find a good deal, the right deal, financing authentic relationships. To becoming familiar with the locals, cause everybody forgets about the municipalities or the cities. You know you got to have good relationships with them because most of them tell you what you can and can't do Right, especially the zoning piece of it to you know maintenance and processes, to the rental process. And then the last chapter. You know I talk about when's enough enough, right, you know it's this. You know competition, you have in your brain of what you think success is and that sort of thing. But it's really I based my book. 

16:32
I read a book when I first got started, building Wealth by Russell Whitney, re-released in the 2000s, and Joel, my mentor, he told me, hey, you need to read that book before we even talk, like before we get going, you know, and it really had step-by-step on how you get into this business, how you turn around and you put your sweat equity and refinance, how you can really scale it, and so my book has all of that stuff, you know I wanted to really put in there a lot of what I've learned over the last 10 years and where somebody could really pick that up and feel good at the end of reading it. Like you know what I have at least the foundation of knowledge that I need to try to get into this business. 

17:13 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and you mentioned something the LLC part of it. So how to start an LLC? This has come up and I don't know why it's come up with me, but there are some people that are pro putting properties in your LLC and there are some that are just like keep it in your personal name. Do you have an opinion on that? What you would suggest? 

17:34 - Steven (Guest)
Yes, I think it always should be in an LLC. And let me explain kind of why Multiple different LLC. So I had a guy that's been in the rental business for 40 years. He goes to the lengths that every single one of his properties is in a completely separate LLC, which I don't do that, but he explains on why he does it. He said if somebody comes after it they only get a piece of the pie, they don't get the whole pie, right? So the way LLCs protect you, if somebody just say got hurt at one of your properties, well, if the LLC only owns that property, that's the only property they can go after. They can't go after everything else. 

18:15
For me I have it structured a little bit different. I have an LLC that owns everything and then I have a completely separate LLC that manages everything. And so if a tenant ever got hurt, they can't go after the LLC that owns the properties. They have to go after the rental management company that manages the properties. And so, well, the management company doesn't own anything, right? I mean, you know my management company is 100% virtual. I mean there's a few things you could potentially, I guess, get, but there's no property that you're going to be able to get, and certainly you have insurance in place umbrella policy, general liability policy that can protect you. 

18:54
But I wanted that because if you own something in your personal name and somebody gets hurt on that property, they can come after you personally. So they can come after your house, your car, anything you own personally protected. It's pennies on the dollar what you have to spend to protect yourself. And so my properties are in the LLC. I have a rental management company that manages a completely different LLC, and then I even take a step further like my personal house is in the trust you know. So there again somebody can come after me personally. All they're going to get is my car, like they're not getting a single other asset because I don't own any other assets in my personal name. 

19:38
I think it's just so important to protect yourself, because I'm a firm believer that I don't think one mistake you should lose everything. You could work 30 years and you make one mistake and you lose it all. To me that just doesn't make any sense. There's just so many different ways that you can protect yourself and protect it. You know, don't get me wrong, it's a few more steps, a few more hurdles, a little bit more money, but the money you could save if somebody actually took everything from you is it's just pennies on the dollar and it helps you sleep better at night knowing that other people can't touch you know your hard earned work. 

20:16 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and I'm on the same plane as you. We've got our renovations LLC. We've got a rental LLC each. We don't have it parceled out where every house has its own, but we usually group like three houses in an LLC and yeah, it's. It's a nuisance when we try to refinance and you have to like quit, claim it to your personal name just to get the closing done and then you quick claim it back. So yeah, you could be talking about $500 or $200 to start the LLC, but if I'm gonna lean on either $500 of a fee or thousands and thousands of dollars of like damages, I'd pay the $500 just to do it that way. And yeah, we have to sign a couple more sheets of paper, but it makes everything safer. 

21:00 - Steven (Guest)
So that's right, I'm glad that's your philosophy on it, Absolutely. And then you know I have a completely different LLC for the company that I own money with. 

21:10
And then I have a completely different LLC for the, where I flip houses, because you got to keep in mind, sometimes, people I've never had this happen to me, but I know people that have flipped houses and people turn around and say, oh, they misrepresented the house and they turn around and sue them. Well, if you're flipping houses in an LLC that owns rental property that might be paid for well, and you lose that, they can take some of that, and so you just want to. I just think don't get me wrong it's more money, a little bit more money compared to what you could lose, and it's just not worth it. It's so worth having that peace of mind, knowing that you're protected. 

21:47 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, it's a little bit of insurance which everybody has and you ask them why they have insurance and you don't use it because you don't pay because you want it. You pay because when you need it it's there, and that's what LLC is for me in my mindset. And then you also talked about networking, which is huge. Obviously, you need to network with sellers, you need to network with lenders. Where did you find your niche in networking or where did you kind of like attack when you started and how has that progressed now that you're in it? You've been in it for 12 plus years Like how has that developed? 

22:20 - Steven (Guest)
Yeah, you know, I started with my mentor, you know so. You know, if you find a mentor that's been in this business for any length of time, they're going to have a good network themselves. And so I was blessed for Joel to introduce me to people that he's known for 20, 30 years, whether it's bankers, whether it's realtors, whether it's other investors, and so, and then it just kind of dominoes from there. Right, you know so. You know, if you get introduced to five people, and then those five people introduce you to five people, and then those five people introduce you to five more, it just your network just continues to grow. 

22:52
And you know, for me I leaned on Joel, but then I leaned on bankers, I leaned on people, other investors, that had been in this business for a while, and then realtors as well. You know I told any and everybody that would listen like, hey, I'm looking to get into this rental business. And so you know of anything, whether it's on the market or off the market. Give me a call, I might be in the market to buy. And that has just materialized over time where I get five calls a week hey, do you want to buy this property? And sometimes it's a yes and sometimes it's a no, but I always pass them on to someone else, like, hey, you know what, I'm not looking right now for a property, but you know what this person is. Give them a call and so it's just you know real estate is very. 

23:36
It's a. It's an interesting thing. It's a everybody wants to be successful at it, right, but nobody pulls against each other. It's kind of fraternity of men and women that really want other people to be successful. You know, and I tell people, you know, there's plenty of real estate out there, you know. So like you don't necessarily have competition in real estate, right, not unless you're just bidding against each other on the same property, you know. But everybody has to have a place to live and there's not enough places for people to live, you know. So I mean supply and demand there is just it's very high. 

24:06
But you know, I would try to talk to as many people as possible. I'd look on creds lists hey, is somebody looking to buy something on Facebook marketplace? I'd look on MLS. Sometimes you know, if you're looking at, you know networking or finding properties, ride down neighborhoods, find the worst house on the block, look the person up, call them. You know I have found properties that way before. 

24:29
I've actually bought properties that are condemned, and most people are just so afraid of condemned properties. But I have a good relationship with the cities in which I have properties in, and so they have a condemned list. And what people don't realize is and I didn't know this until I really started doing the research but cities can condemn properties for a stopped up sewer line. So it could be a perfect property but it could be on a condemned list because, for whatever reason, the sewer line stopped up. And that's actually happened in some of the cities in which I own property. 

25:01
And so you know there could be some decent properties on a condemned list that they're condemned for something very minor, like they get a plumber out there, unstop the sewer line. I mean it's just that simple and so you can find even good deals based on that. You know, because they have the people's, you know they've kind of done the work for you. They found the worst house on the block because it's condemned, you know, and most condemned houses don't have structural issues, it's more cosmetic stuff. They have the owner's information. They got a phone number, they got an address. I mean they just hand it to you. I mean it's public knowledge. And so you know hey, here's our condemned list. 

25:40 - Marcus (Host)
They've done all the work for you. All you got to do is call. 

25:41 - Steven (Guest)
You know, most people don't think about that, and so, but that's how you can still find some deals to this day. 

25:47 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, I wish we had a condemned list. I think the closest thing we have is a probate listing from the county and that's about it. Um, but yeah, it's. It's funny like the networking uh compounds on itself. You meet one person. That person knows three people. Those three people know three more people and it keeps rolling. So, like when we started, we were hunting for deals I was doing most viewers are familiar with um, um, bigger pockets and they were promoting uh, what was it called? Uh, driving for driving for dollars, but what was the? Uh, the software system? 

26:24
deal machine all I have to do is take a picture of the house. It skip, traces the tax record and sends out a mailer to the, the homeowner and that's how we was a deal machine. 

26:34
Deal machine. Yes, thank you. That's how we found two of our first three properties was on that, but the next one was an auction. So I got the ability to go to an auction because I networked and found somebody that had capital that could actually put up the money up front. But yeah, even we were working outside sales and I was driving constantly and I'm like, what can I do? So I would take a different route to every different location just to see those worst houses on the blocks. I'd take pictures of them and you get some calls. You get some people that are no, you get some people that are insulted. You're going to run into that, but more often than not you're going to find a good, at least a warm lead. 

27:16 - Dan (Co-host)
So even, like you said, the fear of that. The networking thing we had, the city inspector would call Marcus and say, hey, there's a property that I have to inspect. If we don't have someone to buy this, the city is going to take it over, or like we're going to condemn it. So like, hey, get it, get in, get ahold of this person and see what you can work out with them. So like, even those simple interactions can lead to a potentially good opportunity. 

27:45 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and as you get into real estate for all the viewers, inspectors are not very like forthcoming with leads, so it was shocking when he kept calling and he was like hey, I'm going to look at this one or call on this one. It it's super cool and you get leads from people that you wouldn't expect. I had a friend that, um, I was a few years under him in high school but we met years later and he just gave me a call a couple of weeks ago and was like hey, we got this situation with this house Can help us out with some ideas and it's. It's such a weird networking thing that I never thought when I was managing a bar in Milwaukee that it would lead to what I'm doing in my career. It was. It's very, very cool, absolutely. 

28:29 - Steven (Guest)
You know. And to piggyback on your story about the inspector, I've had a very similar story. There's an inspector here in the town in which I live and sometimes he'll call me and he'll say Stephen, do you want to buy this property? He said I'm tired of dealing with this owner. He said the owner won't fix anything, he don't have any money to fix. He said I told the owner hey, I know a guy that would probably buy it. Y'all need to link up Like I'm tired of dealing with this. You know, and so you know, sometimes leads are based on frustration too. You know, like people are just ready for a solution, and when people are just ready for a solution, that's when you get the best deal right. 

29:04
You know they're just tired of dealing with it, they're just frustrated, they're just like get this out of here, you know, and so lean into those. You know I highly recommend don't ever tune somebody out about a connection, because you just never know when you might need that person, when they might need you. 

29:20 - Marcus (Host)
I mean, it's make sure it's mutually beneficial and run the show and have all the resources, but if you stick with it, you'll have support. Like you were saying, it's a big group, men and women all trying to do the same thing, but we're not really competing with many other people. And I'll take it back to you You're a 22-year-old self. When you bought your first property, right? You were 22? 

29:52 - Steven (Guest)
22, 23, 24, something like it was my early 20s. 

29:56 - Marcus (Host)
It's impressive, either age, did you start local, like in that Chicago market? 

30:04 - Steven (Guest)
Yes, I started local. So in Chicago was just the simulation for school, but I started locally here in North Carolina. 

30:14 - Marcus (Host)
Okay, and have you stayed local since then, or have you expanded out? 

30:19 - Steven (Guest)
I've stayed local, so I own property in four different counties and I've clustered all the properties together. And that's one thing that I talk about in the book, that you don't want a bunch of properties necessarily just spread out. Right, what if you've got to go see them all? I mean, it's a ton of time in between. And so you know, I tell people it's fine if you're in multiple different states or multiple different counties, but try to cluster them together within that territory, or multiple different counties, but try to cluster them together within that territory. And so for me, in any of the counties you can get from the furthest property to the other furthest property in 30, 35 minutes. You can get from one of my properties in one county all the way to the other property in another county in 45 minutes. So really you can get to any of my properties in 45 minutes. And I live in the middle of it all, so I can get to any of them in 20, 25, 30 minutes max. And so it just makes it so much easier when you start thinking about from a business standpoint, if you have to have maintenance teams go. 

31:11
If you have a plumber, electrician, hvac, roofer, you know, if you've got one that's two hours this way and one's four hours that way. That's going to be a lot of money you're spending if you can't find somebody in that area. So I always try to recommend people clustering together. Plus, you get a sense of that market. So if you just have one property in every single market, do you really know what fair rent is or what you should really be renting it for? The more you have there, the more sample size you can get on what you might be able to potentially rent it for, and for us we've seen much higher rents being able to do that, because I really know what things you're going for. 

31:48 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and then just to speak on the competition part, so working in the same market, or relatively the same market, same county for multiple decades and you're still finding deals, you're still running into, probably, people that you've ran into 20 years ago still doing it, but there's always going to be houses out there, that's right. 

32:14 - Steven (Guest)
That's right and the cool thing is you know it takes it a step further about. You know the competition about just finding houses. Now, like I'm on a group text has probably got 10, 15 different investors in this area and we share information of like hey, this is what this tenant just did to me. 

32:30
Kind of thing hey, be on the lookout. This is what's going on in this neighborhood. You know, like, hey, I'm evicting someone. They tore my house completely up. They did $10,000 worth of damage and nine times out of 10, we're getting one of those calls because there's only so many realty management companies in an area and it's like, well, we know who to stay away from, and so it's just sharing information. It's not a blacklist or anything like that. Everybody gets to make their own decision, but it's just sharing open information that might, hey, this is what's going on, so everybody can make an informed decision. So it's almost like we have each other's backs too. 

33:08
You know as much as we're, you know we're, we're trying to rent out properties and you know, like, yeah, we don't work for each other, but it's just that community of of great investors, men and women, that really make this so much fun to do. 

33:22 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah. And then you see all these investors, these big investors like you and the other people that have written all these books. That's proof. They're just trying to give you the information, they're trying to give you the blueprint to jump in and making reference back to your book. That's exactly what you're doing. You're sharing your, your struggles, your successes with that next group of people that are going to come in, or the people that are in it with you right now just to give them guidance. Because, to be honest, if there were more people that were in real estate and doing investing, I think the overall knowledge of real estate would get raised, which would benefit everybody. So I like to share everything and that's the reason why we're doing this podcast to share, obviously, networking, so people can give you a call and talk to you, information, little nuggets, if they're trying to get into it, I'm all about it. I just want more people in it. 

34:18 - Steven (Guest)
Absolutely. And I think kind of what we're seeing and this is kind of what prompted me to write the book I had several different realtors and several different investors say, hey, there's just so many new investors, there's so many new realtors and people need to know what you know. And so I was like, ok, well, you know, let me put pen to paper, let me see if I can make this work. And because what I'm seeing, you know I bought so cheap, you know, 10 years ago, compared to what stuff's you know for sale today. You know I'm selling a few things just to kind of diversify and have more stuff paid for and that sort of thing. But what I'm seeing is that there is a pretty big number of new investors and pretty big number of realtors no-transcript, it doesn't work right but they're both doctors and you know they both specialize in what they specialize in. 

35:35
I didn't learn this really until probably three or four years ago that a realtor is not a one-size-fits-all deal either. You know now I'm very blessed I have a very good investor. Realtor is not a one size fits all deal either. You know now I'm very blessed I have a very good investor realtor that that's all he specializes in and he knows the ins and outs. 

35:51
But what I have found out through selling some stuff over the last year and there's a lot of realtors on the buyer side that are really realtors to find you properties to live in that don't know how investment properties work, and so these realtors to find you properties to live in that don't know how investment properties work, and so these realtors were like well, you know, we want a perfect property. Well, okay, I get, everybody wants a perfect property, but this is a rental property, right? So it's not something you're going to live in, you're going to rent it out, you know. And they're like well, you know we want. You know, the roof's like 10 years old and everybody wants a new roof if they're going to live in a property, right, I mean, it's just one of those things. Now You're like well, we want you to put on a new roof or we want you to discount it where we get a new roof, like, no, that's not how this is going to work, right? 

36:31
Like that's not how investment property purchases, acquisitions work. Like it is priced based on condition. 

36:39
It's priced based on what you can rent it for, like you want to do all this other stuff, that's fine, but that's on you, and so a lot of realtors and even new investors don't understand that and so I wanted to try to provide a product with the book and then even my consulting business, Storage Consulting, to help people understand that you're not going to get the same kind of concessions you're going to get if you're buying a house to live in compared to an investment property. 

37:03
Investment properties are priced based on condition, priced on based on what you can rent it for. If you want all this other bells and whistles, that's okay, but somebody is not going to discount based on that and a lot of people do not understand that and they can't wrap their mind around it. They're like well, I'm just not going to buy the property business if you have that mindset. And so that's one of the things that I've seen people just struggling with over the last couple of years and that's what I'm trying to help right, you know, because that's very frustrating for everybody involved. 

37:33 - Dan (Co-host)
It's frustrating for the seller, buyer, every realtor. 

37:37 - Steven (Guest)
Like you have to have the right mindset to get into this business too. 

37:40 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and with the market, with the houses on the market these days, with the prices being high, it's harder to make numbers work. But even the houses I walk through, I always message the realtor, just like you were mentioning, and I'm transparent with them Like, hey, I'm investor, my price point would be a little bit lower than asking price. I understand that the market these days you're probably going to get your asking price for a homeowner, but if something does fall through, keep my number. This is where my numbers are at. This is why and I just pass it off like that If it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. I'm not going to get beat up on the nose, it's just not the right property for me. And you keep looking. 

38:21 - Steven (Guest)
And one thing that I've really seen now and I don't understand this philosophy either is that people won't make an offer. Like, just say, the property's worth $200,000 and they think it should be worth $180,000, for instance, they won't even make an offer. It's like when I was getting into this business, you know, I didn't necessarily make offers just to, you know, see what I could get away with, but I made fair offers and sometimes they were lower and sometimes they were much lower, but that's a starting point, right. Like, and I don't, I'm seeing that more and more that that people are afraid to even make the offer, even if it's less. You know, like, you see plenty of times where somebody makes an over-asked offer and they'll do that. But you know, I got some of the stuff. You know we've asked for feedback, like, okay, why aren't you going to make an offer? Well, our offer is a little bit less than yours. Well then, make the offer right Like that's a starting point. 

39:18
Like, if you don't make an offer at all, the conversation is dead. Right, you know, and so you don't want the conversation dead If you feel like you can actually get something done. But I'm seeing more and more of that. It just it blows my mind a little bit. Like you know, it's okay, like it's almost like people are afraid they're going to offend someone by. You know, if it's 200,000, I'm going to make $180,000 offer. No, make the offer. You know, most of the time there's wiggle room there, right, you know. So make the offer. Let's try to get a deal done. 

39:49 - Dan (Co-host)
I think there's a psychology behind it where the people that would be buying feel like the market's been so hot that they have to offer, asking or above, just because that's how it's been trending or that's how home prices have been going up. And, like you said, I tell students and even previous jobs closed mouths don't get fed. So if you don't ask the question, you don't put out the offer. It's always a no or, like you said, the conversation. Debt is not going anywhere and who does it hurt? Takes what 10 minutes to fill out the offer sheet. If it's a legit offer, send it out and see what happens. Like you said, use that as your springboard. Start there. 

40:30 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and I think a lot of that goes into what people are hearing, because they're always like, okay, this sold for over asking, that sold for over asking. That's one little piece of the pie of real estate. There are so many other reasons why people sell. Is there medical distress, is there a loss of family, are they trying to move? There are so many other reasons of why they could be selling other than price. So there was one we actually had. 

41:00
One of our biggest flips was a on-market property. It was on for, I want to say, $340, $350. And I called up the agent and I said, hey, we're finishing up a flip, we're trying to get to the next one. I do not mean to be insulting at all. I'm interested in your property because I like doing big rehabs, but my price point is not going to be probably something that's palatable for you. But I was going to throw out an offer. If it's something that the buyer or the sellers want to do, great. If they don't, no harm, no foul. And I ran the numbers. We ended up coming in at like 268 or something like that and they're like, no, that's great. And I was like I was blown away that they accepted that one Because I was nearly 20% off. They're like, no, that's great, and I was like I was blown away that they accepted that one because I was still early on. 

41:45 - Dan (Co-host)
Nearly 20 off. 

41:46 - Marcus (Host)
They're asking yep, we bought, we put in an offer head under contract and then, uh, we actually backed out because they had another buyer, but it was on the market for 200. We offered 100 and they accepted it. So you never know what's gonna happen. You have to ask the question. You have to ask why they're selling. I would guess 50% of the time maybe that's just my perspective it's not price, there's some other factor in their world that is pushing them to sell. So always ask the question. Always and I don't know why it's not a question they ask like why are you selling? They just assume that they want all the money that they can get, but asking the simple question of why, what is your pain point? And then you try to fix it. 

42:34 - Dan (Co-host)
So I want to go back to those solutions in the book. 

42:38 - Marcus (Host)
What's that? 

42:38 - Dan (Co-host)
said, I want to go back to his group text with with not to, I guess, dwell on it too much, but is there an app or a website that you could either create or that's already existing, where you could share, almost like a Yelp for either landlords or renters? 

42:59 - Steven (Guest)
I haven't seen one out there, but I feel like somebody could probably do that and be pretty successful at it. 

43:05 - Dan (Co-host)
If it was an independent. I'm going to attribute it back to our old days, marcus, where we used to have to check in at schools and we would have to go through our company who would submit our personal information through a background check system, company who would submit our personal information through a background check system and once we got this id, we could go into any school and basically more than just our driver's license, it's basically showing this person is on the up and up, their background check is clear, like is there a some, some type of system that someone could create if it's not already created with, like I said, yeah this, this landlord, this landlord here owns these houses. 

43:50
They don't take care of their properties well, but the rents are low, or this one's difficult to deal with, or this this renter was good for the first five years and then, for whatever reason, life happened and that you know. So like more than just a simple background check because you can hide that stuff. I mean, people get around it or they sort of like the glass door of real estate kind of right. 

44:11 - Marcus (Host)
I remember using that when I was like job searching last door. But we are, we're coming up on our hour. I wanted to get two things. Was there anything more in the book that we did not touch on that you want to get out? Because from what you've shared on it already, I know it's a valuable tool for those people either that are investing currently or trying to get in it. Is there any other little nugget in there, that a little teaser, that you want to put out for people for this book? 

44:43 - Steven (Guest)
Yeah, you know, I think, for me the best chapter, I think, in the book, you know, certainly. You know chapters one through one, through 10 are great, you know, cause it's about real estate and that sort of thing. But the last chapter wins. 

44:55
enough, enough, um you know that's more about life, right, um, and so you know, for me, um, you know, I've kind of taken a step back, you know personally, and said, okay, do I have enough? Like you know, is this enough? And I've read a lot of articles that there's like Fortune 500 CEOs that are questioning their entire life of, like, working their tail off, working 50, 60, 70 hours a week and not enjoying the journey. It's taking them to turn their 70s to get to the top, and then they're like you know what? I don't have that much time left. I miss Christmas, I miss my kids' ball games, I miss birthdays, I miss family vacations, and they didn't enjoy the journey. And so, you know, my whole thing is whether you're in real estate, whether you're doing something else, enjoy the journey. And so, you know, my whole thing is whether you're in real estate, whether you're doing something else. Enjoy the journey, right, you know, because and that's really what Sorex is, is really about my consulting business and it's all capital for a reason it's not where you start, it's not where you finish, but it's everything in between. Because if you just focus on X marks the spot, you're going to miss out on so much, and some of this I've learned personally. So smarts the spot, you're going to miss out on so much, and some of this I've learned personally. 

46:04
So when I first got in this business, I wanted 10 units. Then 10 went to 20, 20 went to 40, 40 went to 80, and it just continued on to hundreds. And I was never satisfied. Right, because it's like you know what, like I got there. I'm only 35. So I got there. I'm not supposed to be at smarts the spot by 35, right, like you're supposed to be there at 50 and 60, you know, cause that's kind of what the world tells you. 

46:27
So you know, the chapter really tells you to to compare yourself to your younger self. Don't compare yourself to someone else, because everybody's journey is different. But you know, if you would have told me when I was 25 or 24, before I got in this business, that, hey, when you're 35, you'd have a couple hundred rental units and you'd flip houses, loan money, write a book, launch a consultant business, become a pilot I got my pilot's license and you know, very successful, like would I take it, would I be satisfied? And if you would have told me when I was 24, I'd have been like, hey, I'd probably sign up, up for that, like I'd be good with that, and so the whole point of that chapter is to enjoy the journey. 

47:09
You know, don't just look at at smarts, the spot of what your goals are, but enjoy it and figure out why you really want to do what you do, you know. So you know, when I talk to people about, you know, my real estate journey, I don't care about how much money I make, don't get me wrong. I make seven figures a year and I'm doing very well. But I do what I do to better my family better, you know, be able to hang out with friends, do things that are memories that I might not be able to do, and to me that's what makes you rich, not the dollar sign. You know you enjoying life and enjoying those journeys with family and friends and whatever makes you happy, that's what makes you really rich. You know there's not a dollar sign to put on that. So that's one of the things that I love about the book. 

47:55
I kind of end with that of when's enough enough to leave people with that question and to not go look at the world to figure out that answer, because there's a lot of. I mean, if you look on social media. I found this out about a year ago that there's some influencers on social media that that say they fly private jets like everywhere all around the world, but there's actually a private jet there's. There's a video online. You can find this you probably find on google where there's influencers that go to a private airstrip. The plane doesn't work, they frosted out the windows and they make a bunch of videos for their, for their followers, and so it's like don't look to social media, cause social media is kind of fake right, yeah, that's it. 

48:39
And so look internally, because if you do this business for someone else, you're not going to be happy. Do it for yourself, Do it for whatever your goals are, and that's really what that chapter is about. 

48:49 - Dan (Co-host)
It reminds me of another book, psychology of Money. I just finished that one a couple of weeks ago, and when you were talking earlier about how COVID hit and it was like something like never expected stuff was shut down, rates were low it's. You can never anticipate what the next biggest thing was, that we've never gone through, but you could always be prepared for that scenario, like something that's never happened before is going to happen, right like the market crash in 08, right, covid and crazy interest rates. Like when you said you had a 7% interest rate on your credit card when you took out that first loan to buy that property. It triggered memory of my dad in like 2000 buying a Grand Prix with 7.8 interest rate, and I was at the time, I was 16. And I was like, why are you paying 8% on a car loan right now? And that's me at 16. And I didn't know really about money. I just thought that that rate was crazy high and now you got credit cards that are touching 30. Like it's ridiculous. 

49:56
So that was a good book I'm interested in. In reading your book I was actually looking it up because my daughter works at barnes and noble. I'm gonna see if she can get, give me a copy of it and then, uh, I like that, that chapter. Like you said, when is enough enough? And it's not so much, not about the greed, but when are you settled, when are you satisfied. And, like you said, it's about the journey, not the destination. 

50:23 - Marcus (Host)
At that point, yeah, that chapter reminds me of two things. One I know he's a Texas guy and you're a're a tar heel, but mcconaughey had a speech and he talks about who his idol is, and his idol is 10 years from me, 10 years from now. Me, yeah, and then when I get there it's 10 years, and that I like that philosophy, like I'm competing with myself. I know what I want to get to, so I'm going to keep myself as my competition. 

50:50 - Dan (Co-host)
I'm going to compete against that was that from his book green lights I'm sure, I'm sure he put it in his book, I think it was. 

50:56 - Marcus (Host)
But it was a speech. I don't know if he won an award for like a movie or if he was trying to do a commencement speech. 

51:02 - Dan (Co-host)
I think I think yeah. 

51:03 - Marcus (Host)
So just that speech alone. Like I could listen to matt mcconaughey and he'd get me fired up, um. And then the other one was the book the Next Five Moves. I know he's very active on Instagram and all that, but he doesn't have a chapter. But he does talk about when you get into business. 

51:21
Where do you want to go? Do you want to be the multi-billionaire? Do you want to just make a hundred thousand a year and go with your family? Both of those are okay. You just got to know where you want to go, because that's going to set up your next steps, like, don't push to be a multi-billionaire if you're not going to be happy doing that because you're. He talks about himself like that's the route he took and he's tied to work and he's always doing events and he's always talking. He's always pulled away from his family and that might not be for everybody. So grasp me up where you want to go. As you're starting those LLCs and starting to buy real estate, what's your end game? Like, where's your competition? Where's the 10 year mark of you going to be at and be okay with that one? So those are just two things that popped in my head. But, yeah, excited to read the book and then that same company is now doing a giveaway. Is what you mentioned before the show. 

52:15 - Steven (Guest)
Yes. So, uh, my consulting business, storitz Consulting is, is doing a giveaway where, um, we're allowing people, there's free ways to join, there's ways to get bonus entries by buying merchandise. You can actually buy the. Uh, you know, dan, if you want to buy the book, you can actually buy it through the giveaway site and it gets you entries into the giveaway. Maybe you want to join that as well. 

52:35
But for every dollar you spend a dollar into the giveaway and we're going to give away a thousand dollars a month starting in June through the end of the year, and then one lucky winner we're going to find them in North Carolina and they're going to have a chance of winning a half a million dollars to go towards real estate. And so, just looking to give back kind of full circle here for me, you know, I wouldn't be where I'm at today if it wasn't for people giving back to me. Now, nobody necessarily gave me money, but certainly they gave me the guidance, they gave me the courage and then certainly banks certainly took a risk on a mid-20s year old that didn't make a lot of money. And so I just want to, kind of full circle, be able to help people, and Sorex is here to help people in whatever way that looks like. 

53:18
There's different things you can buy on the site apparel accessories, there's educational things on there, there's a course on there you can buy. The books are on there. It's just a fun way, right that people can take that leap of faith to get into real estate and to start learning but also have a chance at winning some money to do it as well. So, really, looking at that, you can go to soretsconsultingcom or shopsoretsconsultingcom is where the giveaway is. If you go to the regular website, just click on giveaway and it'll take you to the giveaway site. And so really looking forward to how we can kind of shape the future and and be able to give back you know, somebody that might not be able to get in this business any other way. 

53:58 - Marcus (Host)
That's awesome, yeah, I can't wait to be flown out to North Carolina when I win. It's going to be so good. 

54:03 - Dan (Co-host)
You're paying for my half. If you're going, I'm coming with you, even if I don't win. 

54:06 - Marcus (Host)
So well, we will put the link to that website in the show notes. So if you're listening to the show, buy the book, win money, get your chance to win. You're not going to North Carolina, I'm going to North Carolina. It's already settled, it's in the books, but we'll put the links in there for that. That's a super good giveaway. I can't wait to check out more of your content because it sounds like our mindsets are on the same wavelength, just states away. So it's super impressive to see what you've done. I wish I would have gotten into real estate at the age you started in. You got like a decade head start on me. So it's super, super cool and I hope it keeps going. 

54:50 - Steven (Guest)
Absolutely. There's a saying in real estate the best time to buy real estate was 20 years ago and the second best time is to buy it today. So, you know, because the thing is, we're also going to, you know, 20 years from now or 10 years from now, we're going to be saying the same thing, right, you know, prices might be a little high today, but what are they going to be 10, 15 years from now? 

55:08 - Marcus (Host)
So it will be interesting, exactly. Well, I'm going to be on the boat when we get there in 20 years, so I'll see you on there, that's right, cool, well, we'll enter all that stuff in there. Thanks for giving us the time. We appreciate it and we'll talk to you soon. 

55:26 - Steven (Guest)
Absolutely. Thank you all so much for having me on Awesome.